Jamie Lee is a She Negotiates consultant, a Toastmasters award-winning public speaker, and a pragmatic negotiation geek dedicated to helping women get bolder, braver and better paid. She supports the women who want to make gutsier asks, especially at work. She accomplishes this by consulting with women one-on-one and leading workshops on negotiation and equity compensation for employees. A recent analysis of her work revealed her clients achieved an average 5x return on their investment. Jamie has helped working women secure $20,000 in raises and more.
Of course, we'll talk about negotiation - the fears, the stories we tell ourselves about negotiation and money, and some of the misconceptions. Jamie brings her wisdom, her experience, and her table-turning curiosity when she unexpectedly fires some questions at me.
Jamie's leading a masterclass in the Art of Negotiation on March 25th in NYC with space to practice and receive feedback. (Don't let that scare you! It's better to bumble in class than real life.) Register here.
Learn more about Jamie Lee and her work over at SheNegotiates.com.
Listen to the complete episode in any of these fine places:
Selected link love + resources from the episode
- Connect with Jamie on social media: Twitter (Jamie) | Twitter (SheNegotiates) | LinkedIn or email her directly at Jamie@SheNegotiates.com
- The Sally Ekus episode that posed negotiation questions Jamie touched on
- Fred Wilson's MBA Mondays
- Beer Advocate magazine
- Women Don't Ask: The High Cost of Avoiding Negotiation--and Positive Strategies for Change (book) by Linda Babcock and Sara Laschever
- Margaret Cho's mom
- Deep Work: Rules for Focused Success in a Distracted World by Cal Newport (book)
- Vital Voice Training
- Never Split the Difference: Negotiating As If Your Life Depended On It (book) by Chris Voss with Tahl Raz
- Jamie's Fab Femme feature
- Byron Katie's The Work
- Kickass Theme Music: “Things Are Getting Better” Written by Rishi Dhir. Performed by The High Dials.
- Stay in the loop about future Le vital corps Salon episodes: Twitter | Facebook | The List (sent monthly-ish including helpful health + lifestyle information)
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Quotes + selected highlights from the episode
All of this wisdom is from Jamie herself (with some minor edits for readability).
I think the fear that we experience when we have to stick our own neck out, to create our own unique value, to ask to be paid or be paid better, is that fear of what will they think of me or will they not like me anymore? [16.8]
First of all, we live in a culture that in America that doesn't like negotiation. We associate it with being sleazy or scammy. It's what used car sales people do. It's a chore that you have to go through when you buy a house. Most people think it's a once a year thing that you have to do if you want to get a raise. Whereas, in the country where I was born, South Korea, and a lot of countries in the East, negotiation - haggling to be precise - is a way of life. [44.8]
We negotiate every day at school, at work, at home, our compensation, how our work is done, how we live our lives, etc. It's a very integral, essential life skill. [13.1]
Every time I do the workshop, I'm always amazed by how much women know and how much women have negotiated. People, especially the women who come to my workshops, don't give themselves credit for how many negotiating skills they already have. [20.7]
I didn't know that I could negotiate for more money. I didn't know how. And I didn't know to ask for help. And I think that is the real reason of why I didn't negotiate for more money. [15.6]
We don't have to sit complaining and feeling sorry for ourselves. We can actually do something about [our career woes]. We could take ownership of our career. We can take ownership of our work and ask for what we desire. Now, there is a good way. There is a productive way to ask, and there are unproductive ways to ask. [25.8]
Girls and women are taught to be nice. We're taught to take care of other people. We're taught to put the needs of other people ahead of ours. So, it feels foreign; it feels illegal [to negotiate]. [14.6]
[On feeling fear when negotiating] I have to revisit one of my core principles which is: Invite and embrace No. [5.8]
When you invite and embrace No, it means that you're simply respecting the other side's autonomy for their right to make that decision for themselves. You have that right as well. Everyone has autonomy. [14.6]
No is an opportunity. It's actually a gift because that's when you can open up to more information. [8.9]
People think negotiation is about putting up a fight. People think negotiation is about manipulation, about confrontation, about making demands. And it's not that. It's about engaging in a conversation. [13.5]
I'd love to make a plug about the connection between meditation, mindfulness, and negotiation prowess, which is that the biggest pitfall any negotiator can fall into is that you make assumptions or your judgment gets clouded by your biases. Biases are something that we all have. We all have perceptions. We all have misperceptions. It's just how the mind works. It's something like fear. We have to just embrace and work with them, but not be subjugated by them. [35.8]
If you're always negotiating from a place of lack, scarcity fear. How are you going to become abundant? [9.8]
What does that money do? For me, having money means freedom. Having money means autonomy. That's what I've always wanted. And I have that. [13.0]
Chris Voss says that when you're nice, you could actually push harder. This might get me into some dicey waters because I know there are women out there who think being nice is just the fastest way to become a doormat. It's being nice with a spine. It's being nice with self-compassion. It's being nice with respect, not with self-hate. [30.2]
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